What's Next with Tina Fegent

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(upbeat music)

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- [Tina] My name's Tina Fegent

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and I run a marketing procurement consultancy

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called originally Tina Fegent Limited.

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And I've got 28 years experience in marketing procurement.

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Been one of the first to do it

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when I worked for a telecoms company 28 years ago

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where I got into buying user guides for mobile phones.

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It used to be inside books

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and actually the agencies were buying it.

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So I went directly to the printers, save 50%.

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So I now run my own consultancy,

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having worked with client and agency side,

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work with clients and brands on all things

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related to marketing procurement.

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- [Karim] Excellent, nice to meet you, Tina.

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Thank you so much for doing this.

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- [Tina] Nice to meet you as well.

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Really, really looking forward to this chat.

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- [Karim] So just to level set,

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in 2021, what is marketing procurement?

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- [Tina] Good question.

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Because actually in 2020, may have been a different answer.

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So in 2021, marketing procurement is about management

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of key marketing suppliers.

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And that's quite broad, but I think what's happened

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in the last year is procurement are at the top table.

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I think it's always been an issue, especially for marketing,

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where perhaps we haven't been as engaged

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with our stakeholders, haven't been engaged

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with the CFOs for six weeks.

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So I think this year you are really starting to see

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marketing procurement sit in as equals

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with the CMOs, with the marketing suite,

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with the chief digital officers, with CFOs.

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And it is our job to manage the marketing agencies

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and all suppliers, relationships,

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production of marketing assets.

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And obviously that management could be anything

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from contracts, could be cost, could be price,

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could be driving value, could be be looking at new ways

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of sourcing, could be decoupling,

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could be bringing stuff in house.

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So it's anything to do with the management

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of services to produce the marketing collateral.

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- [Karim] Is it just a race to cut costs?

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Is that sort of the main thing?

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It sounds like that's the easy answer,

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but I'm sure there's more to it.

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- [Tina] At the end of the day, you can't get away

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from the fact is any procurement person, be it marketing

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or being it buying cardboard or raw materials,

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is about managing the price that you pay for something.

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It's making sure you get the best value.

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And that's probably the difference is we

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use the word best value in marketing.

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My premise has always been to get the most

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from the marketing budget, be it to utilize Trade Credits,

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to get extra advertising spent on a wraparound

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on the newspaper, for example.

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So it's sort of, yes and no.

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You are managing the commercial elements.

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You are looking at agency rate costs,

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the cost of art work for example.

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But in marketing, you want to make sure

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you've got the best suppliers in place,

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delivering the best work for the best value.

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And it's obviously how you define best value.

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Because you could work for an organization,

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perhaps two (mumbling) big companies have merged

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and they have got to do the cost savings to the city.

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So it's the financial market.

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So they have got a target of X billion dollars, for example.

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And I think, you will be focused on price

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as one element, but one hopes there's a marketing spirit

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about driving value.

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"Value beyond savings" is a phrase that many people use.

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So why should you want to concentrate

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on the commercial element?

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It's about making sure you get the best work out there

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that drives the best for your marketing budget.

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- [Karim] So you've been doing this for many years, Tina.

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Recently, I think a few years ago

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you were recognized by your peers

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in the advertising industry on the annual A list.

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From my understanding, you were the first person

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specializing in marketing procurement to be honored as such.

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So my question to you is,

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has it taken really this long for the industry

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to celebrate the value that somebody who specializes

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in marketing procurement brings to the table?

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- [Tina] That's just such a good question.

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Cause I think the answer is actually unfortunately yes.

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And obviously there's lots of other good people

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besides myself around.

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I think the industry for a long time has been very negative

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about the role of marketing procurement.

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And that it in some point, because,

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in relation to your last question, there have been

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many procurement people that have just focused on price.

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It's about getting the agency down to the lowest cost.

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But perhaps may not be experienced in the category.

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Perhaps they were buying raw materials the day

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before the week before and apply those principles.

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So yes, unfortunately there has been a lot

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of negativity about marketing procurement.

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But I think we've listened to that feedback as an industry.

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And I think marketing procurement clients I work with

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and colleagues have invest in training,

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attend conferences, and have really listened

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to the fact they need to be specialists.

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And I think that is a difference.

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The best ones are the people that have

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done marketing procurement for years and years and years.

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And actually, we've seen marketeers join.

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I've got a couple of clients who are ex-marketeers.

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They've come to the dark side, as we said,

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and have joined us in procurement.

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And that actually ...

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Is it easier to train a marketing person in procurement

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or is it easier to train of procurement person in marketing?

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So it's really interesting.

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So it has, but I think there's been a lot more positivity

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in the last few years.

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And that the Campaign award is great to to be recognized,

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to be in there and be called a good egg.

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But I think we've helped.

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We've invested in the time to educate ourselves.

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And I think agencies are much more accepting

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of the role of procurement done the right way.

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- [Karim] Interesting.

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Obviously over the past number of years

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the onset of digital tools

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and digital technologies has changed the marketing

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and advertising industry, full circle.

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I'm curious how digitalization has impacted

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marketing procurement.

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- [Tina] It's really interesting

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because I've just written an agenda

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for someone this morning about digital media marketing

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and actually who has responsibility for it.

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And that's probably been the biggest shift.

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I worked for a couple of retailers, for example,

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consultancy projects.

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And actually you've got traditional marketing buyers.

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So okay, you want an agency to build a website?

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You want an agency to do this

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And then you've got e-commerce platforms

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and stuff like that.

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Well, actually that's IT procurement.

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So I think what we've seen

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in digital marketing procurement is those hybrid roles.

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You've got marketing buyers and you've got IT buyers.

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And really a lot of organizations still have them

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as separate functions.

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But what we are starting to see very slow is

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these hybrid roles coming together.

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Because you do need those specialisms,

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but they can be quite different skillsets

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and different knowledge.

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So, you've got marketing and you've got IT skills.

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I think we've been quite slow

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in supporting digital procurement if I have to say.

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Because you've got that structure,

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that traditional structure,

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and I'd make a call to say, where are these hybrid roles?

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I think in terms of digital procurement,

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in terms of how we use stuff, we've been quite slow.

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I think procurement per se has been quite slow

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in adopting digital technology.

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And I'm seeing more of it.

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The last six months, there's more webinars and conferences

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and podcasts about digital procurement,

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about using bots to do the mundane stuff

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like new supplier forms,

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on boarding, purchase orders.

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And also using market intelligence

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to understand the marketplace

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so you can make informed best decisions.

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So procurement per se has been quite slow

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in adopting digital technology.

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So I think we will start to see that go forward.

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And I think we'll start to see more hybrid roles

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in terms of digital buyers who understand the digital market

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cause it's different and it is a different skillset.

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And you'll start to see more digital tools being used

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in the procurement activities.

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- [Karim] I'm wondering if you can drill down

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a little bit deeper.

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You talked about marketing intelligence

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and then utilizing that.

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Can you help unpack that for us?

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- [Tina] Yeah.

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It's when you get given a project or a new category.

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So, "Can you help us buy X?"

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Where do you start?

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So we call them category plan.

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So it's actually putting together a document to say,

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"Right, I've analyzed the marketplace.

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These are the key suppliers.

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These are the key cost drivers.

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This is share price.

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This is the analysis

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about the marketplace and the key players in it."

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And obviously at the moment,

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there's so many different sources out there,

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from social media to Companies House

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to Wall Street Journal.

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So, what you're starting to see

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from a digital market analysis point of view

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is all that coming together.

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And actually being able to, at the press of a button,

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know about the supplier, know about the marketplace,

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local, European, global level.

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You need to have that perspective because with technology

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the world is a smaller place.

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We're all using Zoom and Teams.

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And indeed I'm doing a couple

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of consulting projects in the States, myself, all over zoom.

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Be great to be there,

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but actually it has facilitated the world being

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a smaller place, which is fantastic.

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But I think that we do need to have that information.

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That's the one thing about marketing procurement.

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You need to have the data.

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You need to know the market place

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because your clients know it.

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And I think from a procurement point of view,

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it is so key to understand what you're buying.

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And it's such a broad category, marketing procurement.

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There's 17 different categories from digital

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media advertising, market research print, for example.

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And if you're managing all of those categories,

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you'd need data.

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What are the trends?

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If we're buying print,

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what's the price of paper?

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What's happening in Finland when they're growing the trees.

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So what I'm starting to see hopefully is the use

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of those tools, sustainability,

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diversity, and inclusion.

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Those things crop up more and more in tender documents.

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And I've seen there's third parties that are providing

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that information supply chain.

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Make sure there's no modern slavery happening, for example.

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So really great, at the moment

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there's thousands of different data sources.

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And obviously ideally, I'm not saying it's all be there

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at the press of one button, but ideally that's what

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digital market intelligence should be bringing.

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That all that information is together in one place.

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So you can make the right decisions

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about the right suppliers and keep tabs on them.

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Because it might be right if you appointed

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supplier agency X, but in six months' time

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something might have happened.

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They file for chapter whatever eleven.

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You need to know that and that's your job.

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And that's why procurement has risen to the top table

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as a result of last year in the pandemic.

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Because CFOs went and said, "Right, who are our suppliers?

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Who are the key suppliers?

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Where are the contracts?

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What's the pricing and what can we do?

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So having market intelligence is key

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to success in a lot of procurement categories.

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- [Karim] That's really fascinating.

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We've all probably heard or read stories

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about clients putting out RFPs and hearing some

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of the backstory on this race to the lowest fees.

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When you take a look at it

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from a marketing procurement lens though,

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it seems to me that it's more than that.

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And that really marketing procurement is more

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of an art than it is about just looking at the numbers.

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You talked about how are

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certain suppliers approaching diversity

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and inclusion as one aspect.

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That's not something you can necessarily measure,

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whether it's on a CPM basis

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or a cost per point basis.

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So I'm curious what sort of advice would you give

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to organizations that are looking to start looking

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at things from a procurement lens rather than a

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just a purely cost lens?

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- [Tina] I think it's a hard question because

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you really have to understand procurement

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and, as you said, the art of it.

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So, and I think the trouble

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about the negativity and the bad press is

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that people haven't invested the time to do that.

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So it is about understanding how they think.

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There was a study done in the UK 15, 16 years ago,

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by three trade bodies, the procurement trade body,

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the agency trade body, and the client trade body,

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called "Magic and Logic."

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And that probably sums it up because what it said is

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that clients and agency suppliers love the magic,

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the fun bit, the ad, the tweet, the TikTok,

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the room on Clubhouse.

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But actually, if you look at the logic in terms

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of managing time, managing costs,

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making sure you've got the contractual obligation plans.

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Have you got COVID procedures in basic production?

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That's the logic and procurement love that.

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But actually it's about getting

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that balance of magic and logic.

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And I think that's what people need to do is

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get that balance because actually we all work too often

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because we love it.

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We've all missed the social element in the last 12 months,

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going to concerts, events, meeting people,

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gossiping and over lunch.

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We've all missed those.

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But it is a balance.

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It is getting that balance of magic and logic.

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And you can get it when you have all three parties,

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the client, the agency, and suppliers and procurement,

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all work into the same ultimate aim.

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So I think my biggest advice is two things, is respect

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and understanding and just talk to them.

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Because other procurement person's

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got an objective to save costs.

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It's been all over the press.

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The two companies have merged and they saved $500 million.

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Well talk to them about it.

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If it is about cost savings,

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okay what can you do together?

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If you do this, what if you better

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your ways of working, et cetera?

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The worst thing is when people have been sneaky

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and hiding their objective.

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So I think respect people's roles

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and I think educate and talk about the challenges

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and where they want to be and work as a partner.

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It's an overused phrase, partner,

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but I think we've seen it in the last 12 months where

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procurement and suppliers have really pulled together.

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Especially suppliers, especially in the media world

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for example, where budgets have been cut

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and the agencies have really stood shoulder to shoulder

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with their clients through thick and thin.

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And hopefully the light is at the end of the tunnel.

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Time to start spending again.

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And we'll get back to the areas that we loved,

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doing, working in marketing.

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- [Karim] This has been really fascinating to me.

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There are obviously going to be people

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that are going to want to learn more

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about the space of marketing procurement.

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Where should they go to learn more

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about both of you and the work that you do?

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- [Tina] Thank you very much.

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We've got a website, which is just my name.

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So www.TinaFegent.com.

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Never split it in half.

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People say Fegant but actually it's Fegent.

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So TinaFegent.com.

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I am on LinkedIn, Twitter occasionally,

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but also my new thing is Clubhouse.

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And I do have a room four o'clock UK time, every Tuesday

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with a colleague in the States.

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So if you get into Clubhouse, come join us, come onstage,

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and learn about marketing procurement in the Clubhouse.

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But yeah my website

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is the best way to find some information.

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Thank you for asking.

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- [Karim] Tina. Thank you so much for joining me.

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- [Tina] Thank you.

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